Salvaging more comments!

tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-48763748735405313362007-08-17T13:04:20.372-07:00anti-aishBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-20507818656252030402007-08-14T19:05:00.000-07:002007-08-14T19:08:01.787-07:00Excellent question/point brought up by frum jew in recovery in his comment to my "headline: "Duh"" post, although on closer scrutiny, I am not sure exactly how valid it is. What I mean is, I don't hold myself out as a giant of the spirit. My experiences were painful, and when I tried to contact Aish in New York and in Jerusalem to alert them to what was going on (or not going on, as the case may be), it was made very clear to me that they couldn't care less, so long as the money keeps rolling in from the secular types who are trying to assuage their "Jewish guilt" with donations to an organization that promulgates an idealized version of their grandparents' Judaism.

That said, a pet peeve of mine is those whose criticism lacks a constructive element. Thus, I will take a stab at my spiritual prescription, though I fear the results will be woefully inadequate.
What I would like to see is Aish advocate a spiritual Judaism, one that is as open-minded as they claim to be. While I respect that as a halachic organization they are constrained to some extent in what they can do, I still think there exists much room for creativity. For instance, the Jewish calendar is replete with outreach opportunities. It seems that every other month along comes a holiday that lends itself to outreach. Thus, apple-picking for Rosh haShanna, costume parties for Purim, and ice cream socials for Shavuos spring to mind. I can only speak from my experience, but whenever ideas such as this were offered to Aish, they tended to be rejected as being too "Chabad-like," whatever that means. But people who sit in an office all day rarely get enthused about sitting in a class room for a lecture that evening, so is it any surprise that sometimes I would be the only person attending an Aish class? And further, is it any wonder that if I were one of only a few people at such events, I, and others like me, could go years languishing at Aish without meeting anyone suitable for marriage?anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-71911429033887783182007-08-13T09:26:00.000-07:002007-08-13T09:32:03.752-07:00Well, a St. Louis ultra-Orthodox rabbi gets quoted about inter-marriage! Is he from Aish? LOL! How about the Kollel? Nah, all of those "rabbis" are still hitting the ground running. He's Heshy Novack from Chabad. Man, I really hitched my Jewish horse to the wrong St. Louis wagon. Anyways, read it and weep.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1186066407261

Hat tip to the Toddster!anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-17990254192342524302007-08-12T04:03:00.001-07:002007-08-12T04:10:22.126-07:00I try to print all comments, regardless of their point of view. Who knows. maybe someone who disagrees with me can convince me that I am wrong? That being said, I would ask that commentors refrain from using proper names of Aish "rabbis" and others in their posts. It is easy enough for those so inclined to figure out who does what at Aish. I am trying to focus on the institutional issues at the organization, and not get bogged down into petty personal disagreements.

Remember, if we are trying to change Aish (and I have anecdotal evidence that suggests we already have gotten their attention!), we need to focus on the issues, and not the people. That is my opinion at least, and as always, I'd love to hear other wiews. Just please try to keep names out of it, as much as is pracical:)anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-3123035512582553162007-08-09T15:05:00.000-07:002007-08-09T15:13:19.136-07:00Got a great comment from an anonymous out there. (Guys, can you pick a name so I can give credit?) He talks about one of the Aish "rabbis" bringing in a cool quarter mil for the year. He got that information from Charity Navigator, which awarded zero (count 'em, zero) stars to Aish's Jerusalem Fellowships. Your tzeddakah dollars at work, folks.

In an only tangentially related matter, I linked this blog to Aish's wikipedia page twice, as did a friend. All three times, the link was quickly removed. But don't get discouraged, everyone. If they're trying to censor us like a Zoo Rabbi book, it must mean we're getting under their skin!anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-30177608613916310862007-08-07T07:50:00.000-07:002007-08-07T08:09:28.297-07:00I've gotten a lot of great comments on this blog; please keep them coming! Eventually, I hope to reach out to more j-bloggers, in an effort to really shine a light on the issues that this blog deals with, but then can only happen with the great constructive criticism that I've been receiving.

One comment I got really started me thinking. Basically, the guy asked, "what about speed dating?" Speed dating, indeed. The Aish creation that has caused more Aish rabbis to need rotator cuff surgery from trying to pat themselves on the back.

The truth is I really don't know what ever became of the idea. The Kvetcher heard a rumor that certain big right-wing rabbis opposed the idea. At this point, I haven't been able to confirm that, but it makes sense that something happened to change the organization around so quickly. For instance, the latest article on Aish's web site http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Intermarriage_and_the_N.Y._Times.asp has 143 comments posted to it. (I am jealous!) Meantime, their Speed Dating web site lists all of one upcoming event! http://www.speeddating.com/ That's a disconnect too large for even Aish to ignore, so maybe the Kvetcher is right, or perhaps there just wasn't a lot of money in speed dating, which is after all the unifying motivator of that organization.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-37939203128794432862007-08-06T05:22:00.000-07:002007-08-06T05:36:41.646-07:00I'm also anti-community kollel! Fortunately for both my bank account and myself, I didn't spend as much on them as I did on Aish. Nevertheless, when I went there seeking help, before realizing that most of Orthodox outreach consists of schnorrers reaching out to put their grubby hands in my wallet, the "rabbi" there promised to "hit the ground running" to solve the problem not just for me, but for the other men in the same situation. Apparently the ground hit back.

Below is an e-mail correspondence to help illustrate my point. All names have been removed to protect the (not-so) innocent. Seriously, people, St. Louis needs help!

Thank you for thinking of me during your fundraising drive. I must admit I was surprised to see your organization looking for hand outs, as I know one of your outreach rabbi, ### ####, recently vacationed for eight weeks during a four month period. I would have thought that if the Kollel needed funds it might have given him "only" a month's vacation, so that he could use the other four weeks for, um, oh I don't know, OUTREACH, as that, I think, would probably lead to fundraising opportunities. It seemed especially egregious when he took a full month off the day after he had a young professional's event at which four, count 'em four, people attended. Memo to ###: four people attending is not an event; it's lunch at a neighborhood diner. But i guess thats why you guys are the rabbis, and I'm just a poor working stiff.
In any event, I will show your request the same consideration that ### showed me during our last conversation (when he hung up on me).
Wishing the kollel a prosperous new year,
####### ####
Dear Friends,
It would be difficult to imagine St. Louis without the Kollel. For the past twenty years our fabulous team of dynamic Rabbis has blessed us with their warmth, guidance, and knowledge. Over the past two years the Kollel has brought itself to a new level. We now have 17 staff members serving the community. Our programs and our popularity are constantly increasing. In order to continue in our great work we need your help! Once a year we turn to the broader community to assist us in our endeavors. Please read the attached flyer and respond generously so that we may continue to serve you for many years to come.
Rabbi ######## ########
Executive Directoranti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-37647485997098281142007-08-06T04:03:00.000-07:002007-08-06T04:21:32.157-07:00First off, Ahavah and Tsvi, welcome to my blog! I want to thank both of you for taking the time to visit. We are new, so any ideas you have to make it better would be greatly appreciated. Also, feel free to post our link on your blog, as we are trying to get the word out about us. And as you can hopefully tell, I try to be friendly to all, regardless of their opinions, so to everyone else out in the blogosphere, please feel free to join the discussion.

Now, with the preliminaries out of the way, allow me to say I don't think I made myself entirely clear in the post. My problem isn't so much that the Aish rabbis didn't make their own daughters available, as it is that they viewed outreach as beneath them. Whenever we came up with ideas to attract new folks, they were denigrated as being too "Chabad-like." And I'm not talking about anything over the top, like proclaiming Reb Noach the messiah or anything. Just maybe a costume party on Purim, or anything to get new folks through the door.

Without doing any outreach, there were no females for us to meet, and yet the rabbis were shocked when guys started inter-dating! What were we supposed to do? Most secular guys (and that is to whom outreach should be directed right?) aren't going to happily grow old and die alone, because that's G-d's will. We are going to proactively seek alternatives to address the situation.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-76794373549624169532007-08-03T12:44:00.001-07:002007-08-03T12:44:41.107-07:00Okay, so Mr. Feldman made his choice. As an "educated Jew" he knew exactly what he was choosing. He can be self-satisfied in his indignance but that changes nothing. And those who defend him or are indignant at the reaction can be self-satisfied as well. Then there is the Jewish community. They did the righteous thing and ostracized Feldman and his wife. Then they sit back self-satisfied that they did what they had to do to protect the Jewish people. Well did they? Really? Who in the Jewish community is responsible to make sure things like this don't happen in the first place? Answer: All of us, but especially the "leaders". If the leaders (rabbinic and lay) did what they were supposed to, this wouldn't ever happen. Can they really be self-satisfied knowing that over the past 10 generations or so, the vast majority of Jews (90%?) have left Orthodoxy behind and the majority of them have all but left Judaism entirely including via inter-marriage. Congratulations! You should really feel self-satisfied. Great Job! Who in the professional world could keep their job with a 90% failure rate? Name a doctor you'd go to with 10% survival rate or a lawyer who wins 10% of his cases. To give a personal example... I grew up reform. I exclusively dated goyim since college. It's only via slow evolution entirely on my own and with the example of brother intermarryng, that I came to the conclusion, with out any real reason to back me up, that I should marry Jewish. This was lucky because if I had met the right shiksa, I'd have been married long ago. I had never even heard of Aish or any other kiruv organization. The closest brush I had was during college a couple of chasidim tried to get me to put on tefillin. I thought they were nuts, having never heard of tefillin. Notice they didn't ask me anything about me, other than if I was Jewish, nor about my experience, nor did they try to create any personal connection or impart any knowledge. Another failure. So a few years ago I sought out my local Aish chapter and now I've learned quite a bit, but often am the only single person in the class without an AARP card. I don't consider this success. What Jew am I supposed to marry?
So those who want to argue in a self-satisfied way one side or the other of the debate about Feldman but don't actually want to do anything that will really help the situation (not "try" but actually have an impact) are to me just part of the problem. That includes the kind hosts of this site.
If you don't find a way to actively engage Jews in a way that makes them care about their personal future as a Jew (not the impersonal problem of Jewish continuity), then Mr. Feldman is just another of the 90% lost or the parents of the lost on the way to 99.9%. So far I've seen nothing from any organization or leader that could actually be called success. Yet they all seem very satisfied.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-1806103449517985942007-08-03T10:39:00.000-07:002007-08-03T10:46:35.780-07:00So the OU wants the Times to apologize, eh? http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/9175/OU+Slams+NY+Times+For+Publishing+False+Statements.html
Well, maybe it's time Orthodox institutions apologize, too. How about Aish haTorah for starters? Seven years of my life I spend with that organization, and when I ask for help finding a shidduch, they suggest women two decades my senior! When I complain, they charge I am being superficial, but when female Aishers say I'm not good-looking enough for them, that I have to accept as being their legitimate choice!
Mazel tov to Noah for marrying a cute shiksa. I plan to soon follow in his illustrious footsteps!anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-71825151941620565932007-07-30T20:21:00.000-07:002007-07-30T20:23:38.742-07:00My response to http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2007/07/review-from-ashes.html. Boy, Aish is really making friends and influencing people!

And let's not just compare the amount of good each group does. As pointed out by others, Chabad by dint of its enormity alone does more good than Aish. But in the bad areas: Chabad just tries to increase mitzvas in the world; Aish makes spiritual growth feel like getting sold a used car.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-74810120600004754492007-07-30T13:10:00.000-07:002007-07-30T13:16:48.598-07:00Introducing a man almost as smart as Yours Truly, and some of his insights to Aish.com! These are comments he made in response to"Rabbi" Soloman's dating approach of "taking one for the team," in other words marrying Jewish, all other considerations be damned. See http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/So_What_if_Shes_Older_than_Me$.asp

Todd , 9/21/2006 12:28:00 AMMaturityI'm a man and I admit that even a woman 10 years younger can add maturity to a relationship.While an older woman may have many great qualities and even advantages over a younger woman (other things being equal), a transcendantly brilliant man taught me somehting very simple, true and immutable: attraction is not a choice.

Todd , 9/13/2006 12:24:00 PMHere in the non-Orthodox world...Dear Rabbi Solomon,I have enjoyed your discovery presentations in the past, but take exception to the above article. It may be appropriate for people in their early 20's, but judging from the comments, it is being taken as a general recomendation for all ages. Based on current statistics, young people marrying jewish at an early age these days are likely Orthodox. I look to Aish to speak to the needs and issues related to people like me, who have recently returned to learn about Judaism and become convinced that I should find a Jewish wife. However, as a man of 40, I have found this return to be a blessing and a curse. I find in my involvement with my local (St. Louis) Aish Hatorah and other such organizations, a general failure to involve women around my age, much less younger.Unfortunately, I am only interested in dating a woman I find attractive (generally they're several years younger), as well as kind hearted, honest, loyal, etc. HaShem has given me those preferences and I don't plan to spend the next several years trying to change them. That would neither be fair to me, or the woman to whom I would have to try to be attracted. And of course, after finding the right woman, I would like to have a family. Following your advice, I and my menopausal bride would likely not have children or our own (or worse given the exponentially increased rate of birth defects for older parents).I feel sorry, for some of the women who wrote in, happy for the ones who found marriage to younger men who no doubt will appreciate the full attention of the older woman with no small children to get in the way of their needs.

Todd , 9/12/2006 3:49:00 PMDate a 26 year old? sure!When I was 24, I had no problem dating a woman of 26. And at 40, I still don't. 42? Nope. I am only interested in dating a woman I find attractive (generally they're several years younger). HaShem has given me those preferences and I don't plan to spend the next several years trying to change them. That would neither be fair to me, or the woman to whom I would have to try to be attracted.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-49117077341559278942007-07-30T12:51:00.000-07:002007-07-30T12:53:11.259-07:00Widening your field of opportunities can make a big difference. Great piece of Talmudic logic there! And if all 2006 grads were willing to be garbage collectors, the class would have a 100% employment rate. See http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/So_What_if_Shes_Older_than_Me$.aspanti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-15525373198078618702007-07-30T12:45:00.000-07:002007-07-30T12:46:01.408-07:00Another installment of Aish hypocrisy! Just out of curiosity, what ever hapened to speed dating? I spent 7 wasted years in my local Aish, hoping and praying that they would help me find a Jewish girl, and not one effort was made for either my friends or for me. How can you then feign surprise when guys end up dating shiksas?PS. I doubt you'll print this. It's OK though, as I plan to elaborate more on these points at my new blog. The blogosphere is great, isn't it? The world's great leveller. See http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Intermarriage_and_the_N.Y._Times.aspanti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-13530371217055684402007-07-29T18:26:00.000-07:002007-07-29T18:33:13.844-07:00Aish is making more enemies. See http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2007/07/aish-wants-you.html. Here are a few of my comments:

My problem with Aish haTorah is that they engage in incessant fundraising, and offer few services to those to whom they claim to reach out.

Hirshel, they said the Chabad rabbis would brainwash us, and that they didn't practice real Judaism. Camp, your point is well taken. To Aish, outreach is big business, as schnorring is easier than going out and working for a living. But as an idealistic novice, I would have thought both groups were on the same team. Silly me.

Thanks for your empathy, Camp. I understand outreach is big business for lots of groups, and I think that that is generally a good thing. One difference I have seen, and I should stress that this sampling is far too small to be scientific, as it includes myself and a small circle of spiritually-seeking friends, is that Chabad helps Jews because they are Jews and Aish helps Jews because there might be a big pay-off at the other end. Of course, my friends and I may have just had bad experiences with Aish rabbis, and good ones with Chabad ones...

All I can tell you guys is that I am not affilliated with either group. In fact, I am a spiritual seeker who has not yet had the ability to become religious for various reasons. Without getting into the relevant merits of either movement, because quite frankly I am unqualified to do that, I can say that for my friends and I, Aish acted manipulatively and served as a turn-off to Judaism, while Chabad acted in the opposite way. Of course, these are generalizations, but like all good ones, they are by and large, accurate.

anon 11:55. I can find people who say anything about anything, which neither proves nor disproves my point. What I wrote of though is not what I heard, but what happened to me. And while I could try to get a larger sampling of Aish rabbis, I have neither the time nor the inclination to compound bad experiences with more of the same. I will say this, though: I hardly consider a metropolitan area of more than two and a half million people to be small. It's out-of-town status, while incontrovertible, didn't seem to hamper the Chabad rabbis in the same locale.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-77682135093383174342007-07-29T18:13:00.000-07:002007-07-29T18:15:10.732-07:00Is Aish an outreach organization? I'm sorry Anonymous, but while your ideals might work in Williamsburg, Aish claims to be an outreach organization. As such, it is entirely unrealistic to expect people from the secular world to just ignore decades of their socialization, and start looking for inner beauty. I'm not saying that Aish can't persuade singles to look at other characteristics, but ignoring the reality of where your target audience is coming from seems to me to be a sure way to turn people off to Judaism. See http://www.aish.com/dating/wisdom/Top_10_Dating_Myths.aspanti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-80881161818676205212007-07-29T17:55:00.000-07:002007-07-29T18:00:50.857-07:00Well, it's been a while (actually more than half a year!) but I'm back, and fueled by anger at the depths of hypocrisy to which Aish has sank, I hope to transform this blog into a tool to prod Aish to change. Truth be told, a few members of the anti-Aish community have been posting on other blogs, and I will try to bring their insights to you.anti-aishtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4876374873540531336.post-42357800900928584152007-01-09T16:21:00.000-08:002007-01-09T17:05:24.764-08:00Here's one post to aish. com that was censored. It was in response to http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Fighting_Assimilation.asp. Enjoy. Dear Miriam,
Please don't tell Todd to not give up: a man needs to know when to cut his losses. You have no idea what he went through as a Jewish single in St. Louis; I do. I moved out to St. Louis eight years ago, and started going to Aish events. I found the classes fascinating, but there was NO effort to help Jewish singles find each other. In fact, one time when I complained about this, the assistant "rabbi" told me that Aish is not a match-making organization. So what are we supposed to do? As much as I love Yiddishkeit, if Aish is presenting us with a Hobson's choice between a shiksa and growing old alone, I'm going to choose my shiksa girlfriend every time.
And I don't think a long-distance relationship is promising. Look, St. Louis is a major American city. Maybe if I were in a small town I'd consider it. As far as JDate is concerned, I donated to Aish. If they had done what they claim to do when they come looking for hand-outs, additional expenditures should be unnecessary.
Don't get me wrong; this is a sad state of affairs, but so many of us tried to convince Aish- St. Louis to engage in outreach I honestly don't know what can be done. The classes are great, but on more than one occasion, I was the ONLY student there! And when we made suggestions to attract more people, such as fun-filled holiday events (think about it, the Jewish calendar is replete with kiruv opportunities), they were rejected as being too Chabad-like, whatever that means.
Unaffiliated Jews marrying out is sad; but Jews who are committed enough to attend Aish's wonderful classes for years marrying out because they see quite clearly that the alternative is living a lonely life is nothing short of tragic.

Like they say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!anti-aish